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Re: Form to be used to collect A11y feedback

for

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Dec 8, 2022 4:07PM

If I tried to add more unlabeled fields to this form there is no way I
could fill it in correctly, and that's with 30+ years of screen reader
user experience, including a Jaws certification translating NVDA (into
Icelandic) and years as a screen reader instructor.



On 12/8/22, David Farough < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> I didn't notice that!
> I have some vision, but not enough to pick that up I guess.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve
> Green
> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 2:03 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>
> Visually, the text labels look like column headers in a data table, and the
> textboxes are in a row beneath them. The plus button adds more rows of
> textboxes. The button that appears to be unlabelled removes the rows. The
> button label is a minus sign, but NVDA does not announce it with the default
> verbosity setting. Despite looking like a data table, the content is not
> marked up as a table so it just appears to be a linear sequence of 4 text
> labels followed by a multiple of 4 textboxes depending on how many rows have
> been added. Visually it makes perfect sense, but I wonder how many screen
> reader users would be able to work it out.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: 08 December 2022 18:44
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>
> If I really really wanted to fill those fields out I would've counted the
> labels and matched up the numbers with the inputs. This means I probably
> would get it right eventually but almost certainly after trying to submit a
> couple of times with errors.
> (in other words I would give up before then) No idea what the buttons do, I
> figured I could after pressing them and exploring the form after to see the
> difference, but I didn't check them.
> With the labels, you can fix both content order and screen reader
> announcement by adding an aria-owns to the for attribute for the label, the
> value of both is the id of the input.
> So
> <label for="ip1" aria-owns="ip1">First name</label> <label for="ip2"
> aria-owns="ip2">Last name</label> <input type="text" id="ip1"> <input
> type="text" id="ip2">
>
> would be exposed to a screen reader as First name label, first name input,
> last name label, last name input.
> This is one of the couple of hacks where aria-owns can come in handy.
> Of course the solution is to change the source order but sometimes you got
> to be creative.
>
> On 12/8/22, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Birkir, were you able to make sense of the sections of the form
>> containing consecutive unlabelled textboxes? Did you understand what
>> the buttons after those textboxes are for? NVDA announces them as
>> "button plus" and "button", so their purpose may be ambiguous.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
>> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>> Sent: 08 December 2022 16:34
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>>
>> Someone who is totally blind could probably complete the form but it
>> would take them likely twice as long + requiring 2 or 3 tries to submit
>> it.
>> Again, just fixing label association and grouping (which would not
>> impact the look and feel) could significant improve this.
>>
>> On 12/8/22, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> It depends on the nature and severity of their visual impairment.
>>> People who are totally blind will have the most difficulty. Some
>>> people with low vision or colour perception impairment may have
>>> difficulty if they use keyboard navigation because some focus
>>> indicators have low colour contrast, but this is not a problem if
>>> they use a mouse.
>>>
>>> Accessibility is rarely (perhaps never) a binary accessible /
>>> inaccessible matter. The level of accessibility is invariably
>>> different for people with different needs. You could probably design
>>> content that is inaccessible to everyone, but in practice that rarely
>>> happens, at least since GeoCities was terminated.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>>> Of Dolenko, Kristen
>>> Sent: 08 December 2022 15:50
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>>>
>>> Interesting. So generally speaking, people with visual impairments
>>> would be unable to use it, correct?
>>>
>>> Kristen Dolenko
>>> Senior Web Strategist / Conseilleure principale en stratégie Web
>>> E-Communications, Strategic Policy / DG politique stratégique Canada
>>> Border Services Agency / Agence des services frontaliers du Canada
>>>
>>> mobile: 1-343-551-2896
>>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>>> Of Steve Green
>>> Sent: December 8, 2022 10:37 AM
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>>>
>>> ***ATTENTION***
>>>
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>>>
>>> The form is good in terms of some factors such as colour contrast of
>>> text and keyboard operability, but it's bad in other respects such as
>>> the colour contrast of focus indicators. In terms of assistive
>>> technology support, it starts well but then there are all the
>>> unlabelled form controls that Birkir mentions.
>>>
>>> As such, many people with disabilities will have no problem using the
>>> form, but it will be difficult or impossible for others.
>>>
>>> Steve Green
>>> Managing Director
>>> Test Partners Ltd
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>>> Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>>> Sent: 08 December 2022 15:17
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Form to be used to collect A11y feedback
>>>
>>> A 5-min assessment tells me this form is pretty bad.
>>> There are tons of unlabeled fields, some labels associated with
>>> multiple fields, buttons with unclear labels (what are the + and -
>>> buttons). Lots of form control instructions that should be associated
>>> with the fields, grouped labels that are not properly grouped.
>>> Given how long this form is and the collection of accessibility
>>> issues I personally would not bother filling it in. I'd rather call
>>> or go on social media.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/8/22, Dolenko, Kristen < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>> Good morning.
>>>> Very concerned that a client refuses to take advice regarding piggy
>>>> backing requirement to collect feedback on the accessibility of our
>>>> services and website using this form: Submit your feedback to the
>>>> Canada Border Services Agency
>>>> (cbsa-asfc.gc.ca)<https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/feedback-retro
>>>> a
>>>> c
>>>> tion-eng.html?type=0>
>>>>
>>>> Goes without saying that neglecting to modify the form OR the parent
>>>> page makes the form un-usable for the purposes of collecting this
>>>> type of feedback; however, I ran the form itself through the WebAIM
>>>> tool and got 11 fails.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have time to give me an assessment of how serious these
>>>> fails are?
>>>>
>>>> Kristen Dolenko
>>>> Senior Web Strategist / Conseilleure principale en stratégie Web
>>>> E-Communications, Strategic Policy / DG politique stratégique Canada
>>>> Border Services Agency / Agence des services frontaliers du Canada
>>>>
>>>> mobile: 1-343-551-2896
>>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> .
>>>> c
>>>> a
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>> >>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >


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