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Thread: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)
From: Weissenberger, T M
Date: Wed, Apr 24 2024 8:55AM
Subject: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
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Colleagues,
A vendor recently asserted that "most" people who use a keyboard to navigate and operate a website use a visual landmark plug-in like Landmark Navigation via Keyboard or Popup<https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/landmark-navigation-via-k/oemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe>. This assertion was by way of promoting the accessibility of their product, which admittedly has a daunting number of regions and tab stops.
Can anyone weigh in on the prevalence of this kind of tool? Should we assume that visual keyboard users tend to have one onboard, and should we include that assumption when considering keyboard access?
I'll confess to a bit of uncertainty on this point. Thanks for any feedback.
TMW
T. Matthew Weissenberger
Digital/IT Accessibility Coordinator
Accessibility@IOWA
Information Security and Policy Office
University of Iowa
319-384-3323
I occasionally work irregular times. Please do not feel obligated to respond outside your regular working hours.
From: Andrews, David B (DEED)
Date: Wed, Apr 24 2024 9:44AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
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I only know what I know, but I would say they are blowing smoke. I am a screen reader user, and while I use landmarks, and regions some, they are not my primary method of navigation. I use headings, tab, and arrow keys mostly.
I haven't used any such plug-in. People with other kinds of disabilities may, I couldn't say -- but doubt it!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Weissenberger, T M
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2024 9:56 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
[Some people who received this message don't often get email from = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = . Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
This message may be from an external email source.
Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
Colleagues,
A vendor recently asserted that "most" people who use a keyboard to navigate and operate a website use a visual landmark plug-in like Landmark Navigation via Keyboard or Popup<https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/landmark-navigation-via-k/oemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe>. This assertion was by way of promoting the accessibility of their product, which admittedly has a daunting number of regions and tab stops.
Can anyone weigh in on the prevalence of this kind of tool? Should we assume that visual keyboard users tend to have one onboard, and should we include that assumption when considering keyboard access?
I'll confess to a bit of uncertainty on this point. Thanks for any feedback.
TMW
T. Matthew Weissenberger
Digital/IT Accessibility Coordinator
Accessibility@IOWA
Information Security and Policy Office
University of Iowa
319-384-3323
I occasionally work irregular times. Please do not feel obligated to respond outside your regular working hours.
From: Lucy Greco
Date: Wed, Apr 24 2024 9:49AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
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in my experience even people in the accessibility field that are keyboard
only users do not use these addons for any thing other then testing. if
your a keyboard only user that does not use a screenreader the tab key
arrow keys and space and enter most non industry keyboard only users even
know these things exist and the addons and extensions don't add any
thing but vishual help not keyboard help
Berkeley IT <https://technology.berkeley.edu/home>
Lucy Greco, Web Accessibility Evangelist
Campus IT Experience
Phone: (510) 289-6008 | Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = |
We champion diversity. We act with integrity. We deliver. We innovate.
On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:44â¯AM Andrews, David B (DEED) via WebAIM-Forum <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I only know what I know, but I would say they are blowing smoke. I am a
> screen reader user, and while I use landmarks, and regions some, they are
> not my primary method of navigation. I use headings, tab, and arrow keys
> mostly.
>
> I haven't used any such plug-in. People with other kinds of disabilities
> may, I couldn't say -- but doubt it!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Weissenberger, T M
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2024 9:56 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
>
> [Some people who received this message don't often get email from
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = . Learn why this is important at
> https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
>
> This message may be from an external email source.
> Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
> suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
>
> >
> Colleagues,
>
> A vendor recently asserted that "most" people who use a keyboard to
> navigate and operate a website use a visual landmark plug-in like Landmark
> Navigation via Keyboard or Popup<
> https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/landmark-navigation-via-k/oemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe>.
> This assertion was by way of promoting the accessibility of their product,
> which admittedly has a daunting number of regions and tab stops.
>
> Can anyone weigh in on the prevalence of this kind of tool? Should we
> assume that visual keyboard users tend to have one onboard, and should we
> include that assumption when considering keyboard access?
>
> I'll confess to a bit of uncertainty on this point. Thanks for any
> feedback.
>
> TMW
>
>
> T. Matthew Weissenberger
>
> Digital/IT Accessibility Coordinator
>
> Accessibility@IOWA
>
> Information Security and Policy Office
>
> University of Iowa
>
> 319-384-3323
>
> I occasionally work irregular times. Please do not feel obligated to
> respond outside your regular working hours.
>
> > > > > > > > >
From: Dean.Vasile@outlook.com
Date: Wed, Apr 24 2024 11:08AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
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Colleagues,
While landmark navigation plugins can be helpful, it's risky to assume "most" keyboard users rely on them. Here's why:
* Limited adoption: These tools are specialized and less common than screen readers.
* Doesn't fix the problem: Landmark plugins don't address the core problem of poor keyboard navigation design.
Instead, let's prioritize:
* Clear structure: Semantic HTML (headers, nav, main, etc.) for easy navigation.
* Logical focus order: Ensure tabbing moves in a way users expect.
* Skip links: Allow bypassing repetitive content.
* Highly visible focus: Make the currently selected element obvious.
Thorough keyboard testing is KEY â not an assumption about plugins.
Let's build inclusively for all keyboard users!
Dean Vasile
617-799-1162
> On Apr 24, 2024, at 10:56â¯AM, Weissenberger, T M < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Colleagues,
>
> A vendor recently asserted that "most" people who use a keyboard to navigate and operate a website use a visual landmark plug-in like Landmark Navigation via Keyboard or Popup<https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/landmark-navigation-via-k/oemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe>. This assertion was by way of promoting the accessibility of their product, which admittedly has a daunting number of regions and tab stops.
>
> Can anyone weigh in on the prevalence of this kind of tool? Should we assume that visual keyboard users tend to have one onboard, and should we include that assumption when considering keyboard access?
>
> I'll confess to a bit of uncertainty on this point. Thanks for any feedback.
>
> TMW
From: Jeremy Echols
Date: Wed, Apr 24 2024 12:27PM
Subject: Re: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
← Previous message | Next message →
I don't think anybody could say what "most" keyboard users are doing, but I definitely use tools to browse and jump to headings and regions. They're invaluable at times. I've known a few people who do the same, but the people I know do it out of convenience rather than absolute necessity. I *can* use a mouse, for instance, but it's inconvenient and can get painful.
However, it doesn't actually matter. What "most" people do isn't easy to define, changes regularly, and isn't what accessibility is built for. You should support users of these tools if you can (especially tools that browse headings since screen reader users often do this, too), but accessibility requires considering all users' needs, not just what you think "most" users do. Especially if it's a vendor who is not backing up their claim about what most people do with strong figures and external reports.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Lucy Greco via WebAIM-Forum
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2024 08:50
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Cc: Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
in my experience even people in the accessibility field that are keyboard only users do not use these addons for any thing other then testing. if your a keyboard only user that does not use a screenreader the tab key arrow keys and space and enter most non industry keyboard only users even know these things exist and the addons and extensions don't add any thing but vishual help not keyboard help
Berkeley IT <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://technology.berkeley.edu/home__;!!C5qS4YX3!GUrccEOAv53aRVVi6T8s57SGKUSTX7b8P0a-XqJYW7W2DyG3xnvAlL8yL06qEBNcHg11oRJ4sECdg8VzOKGecaybKhgu0A$ >
Lucy Greco, Web Accessibility Evangelist
Campus IT Experience
Phone: (510) 289-6008 | Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = |
We champion diversity. We act with integrity. We deliver. We innovate.
On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:44â¯AM Andrews, David B (DEED) via WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I only know what I know, but I would say they are blowing smoke. I am
> a screen reader user, and while I use landmarks, and regions some,
> they are not my primary method of navigation. I use headings, tab, and
> arrow keys mostly.
>
> I haven't used any such plug-in. People with other kinds of
> disabilities may, I couldn't say -- but doubt it!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Weissenberger, T M
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2024 9:56 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
>
> [Some people who received this message don't often get email from
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = . Learn why this is important at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentificat
> ion__;!!C5qS4YX3!GUrccEOAv53aRVVi6T8s57SGKUSTX7b8P0a-XqJYW7W2DyG3xnvAl
> L8yL06qEBNcHg11oRJ4sECdg8VzOKGecawIcUQAWQ$ ]
>
> This message may be from an external email source.
> Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
> suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
>
> >
> Colleagues,
>
> A vendor recently asserted that "most" people who use a keyboard to
> navigate and operate a website use a visual landmark plug-in like
> Landmark Navigation via Keyboard or Popup<
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/landmark-navigation-via-k/oemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe__;!!C5qS4YX3!GUrccEOAv53aRVVi6T8s57SGKUSTX7b8P0a-XqJYW7W2DyG3xnvAlL8yL06qEBNcHg11oRJ4sECdg8VzOKGecawKWxhRUg$ >.
> This assertion was by way of promoting the accessibility of their
> product, which admittedly has a daunting number of regions and tab stops.
>
> Can anyone weigh in on the prevalence of this kind of tool? Should we
> assume that visual keyboard users tend to have one onboard, and should
> we include that assumption when considering keyboard access?
>
> I'll confess to a bit of uncertainty on this point. Thanks for any
> feedback.
>
> TMW
>
>
> T. Matthew Weissenberger
>
> Digital/IT Accessibility Coordinator
>
> Accessibility@IOWA
>
> Information Security and Policy Office
>
> University of Iowa
>
> 319-384-3323
>
> I occasionally work irregular times. Please do not feel obligated to
> respond outside your regular working hours.
>
> > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.webaim.org/__;!!C5qS4YX3!GUrcc
> EOAv53aRVVi6T8s57SGKUSTX7b8P0a-XqJYW7W2DyG3xnvAlL8yL06qEBNcHg11oRJ4sEC
> dg8VzOKGecazpiUj4Tg$ List archives at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://webaim.org/discussion/archives__;!!
> C5qS4YX3!GUrccEOAv53aRVVi6T8s57SGKUSTX7b8P0a-XqJYW7W2DyG3xnvAlL8yL06qE
> BNcHg11oRJ4sECdg8VzOKGecazkI63rqg$
> > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.webaim.org/__;!!C5qS4YX3!GUrcc
> EOAv53aRVVi6T8s57SGKUSTX7b8P0a-XqJYW7W2DyG3xnvAlL8yL06qEBNcHg11oRJ4sEC
> dg8VzOKGecazpiUj4Tg$ List archives at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://webaim.org/discussion/archives__;!!
> C5qS4YX3!GUrccEOAv53aRVVi6T8s57SGKUSTX7b8P0a-XqJYW7W2DyG3xnvAlL8yL06qE
> BNcHg11oRJ4sECdg8VzOKGecazkI63rqg$
> >
From: Kevin Prince
Date: Sat, Apr 27 2024 4:45AM
Subject: Re: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
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I can only assume they have a vested interest in such an add-on. The keyboard users I know have a keyboard and a device. Most wouldnât i ow an add on of it leapt out at them.
Kevin Prince
Accessibility Consultant
Access Advisors
Phone: +64212220638
Web: https://accessadvisors.nz<https://accessadvisors.nz/>
[image001.png]
If you have any access needs why not join our research panel<https://accessadvisors.nz/research-participants/> where you can be paid to help improve digital accessibility in New Zealand.
I work flexibly and am sending this message now because it suits my work schedule. However I don't expect that you will read, respond to or action it outside of your regular working hours.
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Weissenberger, T M < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2024 2:55:52 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
Colleagues,
A vendor recently asserted that "most" people who use a keyboard to navigate and operate a website use a visual landmark plug-in like Landmark Navigation via Keyboard or Popup<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmicrosoftedge.microsoft.com%2Faddons%2Fdetail%2Flandmark-navigation-via-k%2Foemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe&data%7C02%7Ckevin.prince%40accessadvisors.nz%7Cf812efe67c864cba2f2508dc646eaad0%7Ccb0facaf418f4b89a8e2873ab414b1e8%7C0%7C0%7C638495673689980452%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RXsE5P2w16%2FxBNJjoX4SnzP2Sako3%2FbtuRVAuje3bTo%3D&reserved=0<https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/landmark-navigation-via-k/oemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe>>. This assertion was by way of promoting the accessibility of their product, which admittedly has a daunting number of regions and tab stops.
Can anyone weigh in on the prevalence of this kind of tool? Should we assume that visual keyboard users tend to have one onboard, and should we include that assumption when considering keyboard access?
I'll confess to a bit of uncertainty on this point. Thanks for any feedback.
TMW
T. Matthew Weissenberger
Digital/IT Accessibility Coordinator
Accessibility@IOWA
Information Security and Policy Office
University of Iowa
319-384-3323
I occasionally work irregular times. Please do not feel obligated to respond outside your regular working hours.
From: alex
Date: Sat, Apr 27 2024 4:49AM
Subject: Re: Răsp.: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
← Previous message | Next message →
Please stop sending me emails. I'm not interested. Â
Yahoo Mail: CÄutare, organizare, reuÈitÄ
Pe sâm., apr. 27, 2024 la 12:46, Kevin Prince< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > a scris: I can only assume they have a vested interest in such an add-on. The keyboard users I know have a keyboard and a device. Most wouldnât i ow an add on of it leapt out at them.
Kevin Prince
Accessibility Consultant
Access Advisors
Phone: +64212220638
Web: https://accessadvisors.nz<https://accessadvisors.nz/>
[image001.png]
If you have any access needs why not join our research panel<https://accessadvisors.nz/research-participants/> where you can be paid to help improve digital accessibility in New Zealand.
I work flexibly and am sending this message now because it suits my work schedule. However I don't expect that you will read, respond to or action it outside of your regular working hours.
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Weissenberger, T M < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2024 2:55:52 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
Colleagues,
A vendor recently asserted that "most" people who use a keyboard to navigate and operate a website use a visual landmark plug-in like Landmark Navigation via Keyboard or Popup<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmicrosoftedge.microsoft.com%2Faddons%2Fdetail%2Flandmark-navigation-via-k%2Foemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe&data%7C02%7Ckevin.prince%40accessadvisors.nz%7Cf812efe67c864cba2f2508dc646eaad0%7Ccb0facaf418f4b89a8e2873ab414b1e8%7C0%7C0%7C638495673689980452%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RXsE5P2w16%2FxBNJjoX4SnzP2Sako3%2FbtuRVAuje3bTo%3D&reserved=0<https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/landmark-navigation-via-k/oemdnnhhfhdhilalibobndhoahcaiboe>>. This assertion was by way of promoting the accessibility of their product, which admittedly has a daunting number of regions and tab stops.
Can anyone weigh in on the prevalence of this kind of tool? Should we assume that visual keyboard users tend to have one onboard, and should we include that assumption when considering keyboard access?
I'll confess to a bit of uncertainty on this point. Thanks for any feedback.
TMW
T. Matthew Weissenberger
Digital/IT Accessibility Coordinator
Accessibility@IOWA
Information Security and Policy Office
University of Iowa
319-384-3323
I occasionally work irregular times. Please do not feel obligated to respond outside your regular working hours.
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sat, Apr 27 2024 4:51AM
Subject: Re: Răsp.:Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
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Alex...you know what a mailing list is?
On 27/04/2024 11:49, alex via WebAIM-Forum wrote:
> --
Patrick H. Lauke
* https://www.splintered.co.uk/
* https://github.com/patrickhlauke
* https://flickr.com/photos/redux/
* https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke
From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Sat, Apr 27 2024 9:50AM
Subject: Re: Răsp.: Keyboard operation with browser plug-in
← Previous message | No next message
At the bottom of every e-mail that is distributed by a distribution list there is an unsubscribe clause.
The one for this list states:
Best wishes,
Jonathan Cohn
> On Apr 27, 2024, at 6:49 AM, alex via WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>